TALKING TO THE WALL
.
NOW WE HAVE RIGHT-WING AND CENTER-RIGHT TALKING POINTS
WILL THESE PEOPLE NEVER LEARN TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES?
They Need To Recognize That The Right Is The Minority In This Country, And That The Left Just Won All The Elections
By their bullsh*t, ye shall know them. The Clintonians are back, bad as ever. Like their dopplegangers who are out-of-the-closet Republicans, they come with their endless series of lies and bigger lies, trying to deny & distort a reality that rejects everything about them. They have failed again and again in their corporatist ambitions. Their way simply doesn't work. Nobody wants it. We just told them that, loudly, in the Primaries and in the General Election. Now here they are again with their ridiculous talking points, trying to win by stealth and deception what they couldn't win in a full, free, fair and open election: The hearts and minds of the majority of the American people, progressives all, and control of our brand spankin' new government's policies. Just say no. Just say "CHANGE!" Just keep saying it till they f*ck off.
MY ORIGINAL COMMENT ON OBAMA'S LATEST NOMINATIONS:
The (inside) joke about our financial markets is that they have ever been in any way "public," or for the benefit of the public. Any benefit we might enjoy is purely incidental to the real purpose of enriching & empowering the people who set up & run these markets, and then go on to "regulate" them. They're nothing but casino's, and only the house can ever win, in the long run, and on a regular basis. They've even put our homes on the craps table.
Anyone who doesn't see this, or deliberately denies it, is either a damned fool or a shill. Or both. Our capacity for self-delusion is not limited to those outside the markets. It must be easy to believe your own cons when they work so f*cking well.
The latest interest rate cuts, the last possible, will either finally enable us to borrow our own damned money again, or show even the blindest fool what the game is really all about, and who benefits from it. It'll be easy: They'll be the ones not homeless, jobless, hungry and without medical care. We'll be the other ones, still paying for it all.
Is Obama likely to do anything about this? Or is he simply going to tell us how we need to be tightening our already strangulating belts, believe in the system, and trust in him to fix it? Well, he's got the usual suspects already rounded up. They're all on his economic team.
Oh, wait. Didn't FuxSnooze say we were voting for socialism? Phew! For a minute there, I thought there was no way out of this!
Anybody know where those posse comitatus-exempt troops are, right now? Just askin'.
Well, cosanostradamus and all of you out there who seem to think that Obama is going to be just as bad as Bush or McCain, tell me, what should we do? If we decide to take to the streets, who would support us? And since we can't retroactively remove Obama and replace him with Dennis Kucinich, or Cynthia McKinney, or the bones of César Chávez (and good luck getting someone else to run in 2012, short of someone putting a bullet into Mr. Obama, though considering the crazies on the right who think he's the second coming of Karl Marx, not that they know anything about Marx anyway), I'd say that Mr. Obama is, at present, our best hope at restoring sanity.
--SOMEGUYon SomeBodyElse'sSite
What "we" should do is whatever each one of us thinks is right. If you think that just voting for a President once every four years, and then just sitting on your ass and letting him do whatever he wants, regardless of his promises or your interests, your thinking is dead wrong. If you think voting for somebody involves some sort of Anglo-Saxon medieval thralldom to him or her, you're dead wrong. Here's what I think: We elected these people to do our bidding, not to tell us why they can't or won't. We live in a representative democracy, not an autarchy-by-lottery. Once they are elected, they are responsible to us, and must carry out our will until we fire them. It's up to us to stay right behind them, carefully watching, pushing them, pulling for them, and kicking them in the ass as needed. That's our job, not to be good Germans.
That's what I want. But I also recognize that in the real world, that just ain't gonna happen. Powerful people excel at covering their own asses, and removing them from power usually means lots and lots of bloodshed. If you don't believe me, read the histories of the French and Russian Revolutions. Oh and tell me if you think what happened directly after those two events (the Reign of Terror and Soviet Russia) were any better than what had gone on before.
--SOMEGUYon SomeBodyElse'sSite
Yes, I do think that the reign of Terror and Soviet Russia were better than the Ancien Regime and the Czars. Too many people died, too many were oppressed, but those years represented a transition, and the stages that followed meant an end to that level of death & oppression: Fifty years of turmoil in France and seventy years of turmoil in Russia ended over a thousand years of oppression and exploitation. I don't think we should or need to go through any such violence and oppression to bring about change in the U.S. France and Russia did not have democracy to work with, we do. We just need to work with it. And I do mean work. This means actively participating all the time, not just in Presidential or Congressional elections. This means taking over our local political organizations and/ or forming new ones to return power to the grass-roots level. We need a bottom-up, not a top-down system. We're stuck with the "two-Party System," for now, so we need to use it to create a new system. Without a Party to control a Government, we have nothing. We must stay involved and take over the Parties. Electing Obama and creating the networks and mechanisms that helped him win is only step one. Step two is using those networks and mechanisms every day to help/ force Obama & Co to effect change.
Instead of surrendering, as we seem to be doing by saying we can't trust Mr. Obama to do much of anything, we can support him against the frivolous attacks that are already being launched on him and try to build the foundation of a better future. The GOP didn't get where they are overnight and it'll take us just about as long to set things straight, and we can only hope the next generation doesn't fall for conservative BS as ours did.
--SOMEGUYon SomeBodyElse'sSite
Speak for yourself. I didn't "fall for conservative BS," ever. My objections to Obama's very important steps and missteps so far are anything but "frivolous." And I don't consider "Mr. Obama" to be the answer to all of society's ills. He's nothing but a tool. If we leave him lying around, somebody else will make use of him, for their own purposes. I think that is already happening. And I think it is happening because people like you would have us fail to strike while the iron is hot, "giving him time"/ "waiting & seeing" etc, while the Permanent Government and the opportunists who represent only the Established Order jump in and gobble up every Cabinet post, every advisory position, every lever of power and every point of access to Obama that means anything, while people like you council us to be patient. F*ck that. My country can't afford any more of that sort of "patience," which is just the same old apathy, cowardice, laziness and muddle-headed thinking that gave Dubya eight freakin' years to destroy the World As We Knew It. Enough with your time-wasting: Lead, follow or get out of the way.
Not sure how I'm supposed to interpret that as anything other than "Obama's just as bad as the others, since he's picking the 'usual suspects'". I'm also not sure who it is you all want running things that hasn't already refused outright or indicated that they're better suited where they are (like Gore and Krugman).
--SOMEGUYon SomeBodyElse'sSite
Who do I want running things? Not conservatives, Republicans, ex-Republicans, reformed-Republicans, sorta-Republicans, neo-crypto-semi-demi-hemi-Republicans, DINO's, conservative "Democrats," "moderate" Democrats, corporatist Democrats, Wall Street Democrats, AIPAC Democrats, the DLC, "blue-dog" Democrats, Southern Democrats, Arkansas Democrats, Clintonistas, Hillbots, or any of the people who lost the Primary and the General Election because we voted AGAINST them. With all this talk about a "mixed" Cabinet, where is the even-slightly left of center Cabinet member, or top advisor to Obama? Name one. Just one. There's 300,000,000 people in this country; 6,000,000,000 people on this bloody planet. Let him pick at least 50% of his people from "outside Washington," as he promised. If, like they say, it's the people the President surrounds himself with who make or break him, apparently, "It" is Clinton and it's already broken. We all voted against that. Remember? Just last month?
And yes, I see this perpetual carping about "the usual suspects" as nothing more than whining, and worse, it's speculative whining, because the man isn't President yet.
--SOMEGUYon SomeBodyElse'sSite
In case you haven't noticed, Obama is already the President, to almost all intents and purposes. Except for some sneaky back-door moves by Dubya on his way out the door, the old regime has nearly closed up shop, and is letting everything go to Hell, now through the inauguration, even though Cheney still holds the keys & the codes. Obama, to his credit, is moving faster than any President-elect ever has in putting his Adminstration together. There will be no Clintonian inter-regnum of fumbled nominations, failed appointments and forgotten initiatives. But this means that, effectively, Obama has already started governing, and much of his government is being set in stone even as we speak. Now is not the time to stop speaking. Believe me, your erstwhile Clinton-faves are all rushing in to fill the vacuum you would have us leave. And let's not forget: The Clintons were an unmitigated disaster for the progressive movement in this country, a movement that has been stalled by forty years of Cons & DINOs. If we continue to "give them time" to take over the policy-making and implementing machinery of our government, we are in for four more years of "centrist," (i.e. Republican-Lite) Clintonian dithering and the end of "hope." It makes one wonder whose side you're on.
That's a pretty long list. Who does it leave, then? Got any specifics? And what criteria would you have for choosing them?
Mr. Clinton and Mr. Carter brought in a lot of non-Washington people and they got nothing but grief for it, and it hampered their ability to initiate a more liberal agenda. Mr. Clinton's failure on health care is a prime example of that. He was right, but didn't know how to work the system to get it done.
Mr. Obama isn't basing his cabinet decisions on ideological purity, he's basing them on their ability to do what he feels needs to be done. Whether you agree with these people's ideology isn't as relevant: I happen to agree with everything I say, but I wouldn't choose me for any position of responsibility because I know I wasn't up to it.
As for whose "side" I'm on, I'm on everyone's side. I want the world to be a better place for every human being on Earth. You don't get to that point by gauging everyone based on ideology.
And to address the side issue on this, I'm not saying people don't have the right to speak out, I'm saying that what some of you have been saying is speculative, whiny, and counterproductive. That's the great part about free speech, you state your opinion, I state mine.
If you want someone to go in the direction you want, you do it with deeds as well as words, by being pro-active as well as reactive. When FDR told the liberals of his day to "make him do it" that's what he meant. Stop whining and make Mr. Obama do it.
--SOMEGUYon SomeBodyElse'sSite
It seems to me that you're the one who is whining. Why don't you stop whining? All you do is regurgitate talking points you picked up in the tame corporate media, old, rank, stale sh*t going all the way back to the 70's.
If you can't think for yourself, don't bother repeating endlessly those ridiculous talking points. We've all heard them a thousand times. They always amount to this: "Do nothing. Trust the system. Left bad. "Center" good. Bullsh*t, plain & simple.
And if you think ideology means nothing, you aren't much at thinking. Carter and Clinton were incompetent DINO's without ideology. They compromised away any chance for change, just as you would do.
Even you admit Carter & Clinton accomplished nothing. Why give them another chance? As to other voices, try counting again: 300 million in America alone. 6 billion in the world at large.
Like I said, lead, follow or get out of the way. I'm already doing what I feel needs to be done, IRL. This is just a sideshow, as the name implies. Please do go on wasting your own time with your negativity, passivity and petty niggling. Yeah, you live on faith, not action. We get it. Now stop wasting our time. Go attack your conservative "friends" for all the harm they've done. The rest of us have real work to do, and whiners like you are just in the way.
.
.
IMPORTANT MESSAGE FROM YOUR BLOGGERS:
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS: BRING THEM ALL HOME ALIVE, NOW!
NOW WE HAVE RIGHT-WING AND CENTER-RIGHT TALKING POINTS
WILL THESE PEOPLE NEVER LEARN TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES?
They Need To Recognize That The Right Is The Minority In This Country, And That The Left Just Won All The Elections
By their bullsh*t, ye shall know them. The Clintonians are back, bad as ever. Like their dopplegangers who are out-of-the-closet Republicans, they come with their endless series of lies and bigger lies, trying to deny & distort a reality that rejects everything about them. They have failed again and again in their corporatist ambitions. Their way simply doesn't work. Nobody wants it. We just told them that, loudly, in the Primaries and in the General Election. Now here they are again with their ridiculous talking points, trying to win by stealth and deception what they couldn't win in a full, free, fair and open election: The hearts and minds of the majority of the American people, progressives all, and control of our brand spankin' new government's policies. Just say no. Just say "CHANGE!" Just keep saying it till they f*ck off.
MY ORIGINAL COMMENT ON OBAMA'S LATEST NOMINATIONS:
The (inside) joke about our financial markets is that they have ever been in any way "public," or for the benefit of the public. Any benefit we might enjoy is purely incidental to the real purpose of enriching & empowering the people who set up & run these markets, and then go on to "regulate" them. They're nothing but casino's, and only the house can ever win, in the long run, and on a regular basis. They've even put our homes on the craps table.
Anyone who doesn't see this, or deliberately denies it, is either a damned fool or a shill. Or both. Our capacity for self-delusion is not limited to those outside the markets. It must be easy to believe your own cons when they work so f*cking well.
The latest interest rate cuts, the last possible, will either finally enable us to borrow our own damned money again, or show even the blindest fool what the game is really all about, and who benefits from it. It'll be easy: They'll be the ones not homeless, jobless, hungry and without medical care. We'll be the other ones, still paying for it all.
Is Obama likely to do anything about this? Or is he simply going to tell us how we need to be tightening our already strangulating belts, believe in the system, and trust in him to fix it? Well, he's got the usual suspects already rounded up. They're all on his economic team.
Oh, wait. Didn't FuxSnooze say we were voting for socialism? Phew! For a minute there, I thought there was no way out of this!
Anybody know where those posse comitatus-exempt troops are, right now? Just askin'.
Well, cosanostradamus and all of you out there who seem to think that Obama is going to be just as bad as Bush or McCain, tell me, what should we do? If we decide to take to the streets, who would support us? And since we can't retroactively remove Obama and replace him with Dennis Kucinich, or Cynthia McKinney, or the bones of César Chávez (and good luck getting someone else to run in 2012, short of someone putting a bullet into Mr. Obama, though considering the crazies on the right who think he's the second coming of Karl Marx, not that they know anything about Marx anyway), I'd say that Mr. Obama is, at present, our best hope at restoring sanity.
--SOMEGUYon SomeBodyElse'sSite
What "we" should do is whatever each one of us thinks is right. If you think that just voting for a President once every four years, and then just sitting on your ass and letting him do whatever he wants, regardless of his promises or your interests, your thinking is dead wrong. If you think voting for somebody involves some sort of Anglo-Saxon medieval thralldom to him or her, you're dead wrong. Here's what I think: We elected these people to do our bidding, not to tell us why they can't or won't. We live in a representative democracy, not an autarchy-by-lottery. Once they are elected, they are responsible to us, and must carry out our will until we fire them. It's up to us to stay right behind them, carefully watching, pushing them, pulling for them, and kicking them in the ass as needed. That's our job, not to be good Germans.
That's what I want. But I also recognize that in the real world, that just ain't gonna happen. Powerful people excel at covering their own asses, and removing them from power usually means lots and lots of bloodshed. If you don't believe me, read the histories of the French and Russian Revolutions. Oh and tell me if you think what happened directly after those two events (the Reign of Terror and Soviet Russia) were any better than what had gone on before.
--SOMEGUYon SomeBodyElse'sSite
Yes, I do think that the reign of Terror and Soviet Russia were better than the Ancien Regime and the Czars. Too many people died, too many were oppressed, but those years represented a transition, and the stages that followed meant an end to that level of death & oppression: Fifty years of turmoil in France and seventy years of turmoil in Russia ended over a thousand years of oppression and exploitation. I don't think we should or need to go through any such violence and oppression to bring about change in the U.S. France and Russia did not have democracy to work with, we do. We just need to work with it. And I do mean work. This means actively participating all the time, not just in Presidential or Congressional elections. This means taking over our local political organizations and/ or forming new ones to return power to the grass-roots level. We need a bottom-up, not a top-down system. We're stuck with the "two-Party System," for now, so we need to use it to create a new system. Without a Party to control a Government, we have nothing. We must stay involved and take over the Parties. Electing Obama and creating the networks and mechanisms that helped him win is only step one. Step two is using those networks and mechanisms every day to help/ force Obama & Co to effect change.
Instead of surrendering, as we seem to be doing by saying we can't trust Mr. Obama to do much of anything, we can support him against the frivolous attacks that are already being launched on him and try to build the foundation of a better future. The GOP didn't get where they are overnight and it'll take us just about as long to set things straight, and we can only hope the next generation doesn't fall for conservative BS as ours did.
--SOMEGUYon SomeBodyElse'sSite
Speak for yourself. I didn't "fall for conservative BS," ever. My objections to Obama's very important steps and missteps so far are anything but "frivolous." And I don't consider "Mr. Obama" to be the answer to all of society's ills. He's nothing but a tool. If we leave him lying around, somebody else will make use of him, for their own purposes. I think that is already happening. And I think it is happening because people like you would have us fail to strike while the iron is hot, "giving him time"/ "waiting & seeing" etc, while the Permanent Government and the opportunists who represent only the Established Order jump in and gobble up every Cabinet post, every advisory position, every lever of power and every point of access to Obama that means anything, while people like you council us to be patient. F*ck that. My country can't afford any more of that sort of "patience," which is just the same old apathy, cowardice, laziness and muddle-headed thinking that gave Dubya eight freakin' years to destroy the World As We Knew It. Enough with your time-wasting: Lead, follow or get out of the way.
Not sure how I'm supposed to interpret that as anything other than "Obama's just as bad as the others, since he's picking the 'usual suspects'". I'm also not sure who it is you all want running things that hasn't already refused outright or indicated that they're better suited where they are (like Gore and Krugman).
--SOMEGUYon SomeBodyElse'sSite
Who do I want running things? Not conservatives, Republicans, ex-Republicans, reformed-Republicans, sorta-Republicans, neo-crypto-semi-demi-hemi-Republicans, DINO's, conservative "Democrats," "moderate" Democrats, corporatist Democrats, Wall Street Democrats, AIPAC Democrats, the DLC, "blue-dog" Democrats, Southern Democrats, Arkansas Democrats, Clintonistas, Hillbots, or any of the people who lost the Primary and the General Election because we voted AGAINST them. With all this talk about a "mixed" Cabinet, where is the even-slightly left of center Cabinet member, or top advisor to Obama? Name one. Just one. There's 300,000,000 people in this country; 6,000,000,000 people on this bloody planet. Let him pick at least 50% of his people from "outside Washington," as he promised. If, like they say, it's the people the President surrounds himself with who make or break him, apparently, "It" is Clinton and it's already broken. We all voted against that. Remember? Just last month?
And yes, I see this perpetual carping about "the usual suspects" as nothing more than whining, and worse, it's speculative whining, because the man isn't President yet.
--SOMEGUYon SomeBodyElse'sSite
In case you haven't noticed, Obama is already the President, to almost all intents and purposes. Except for some sneaky back-door moves by Dubya on his way out the door, the old regime has nearly closed up shop, and is letting everything go to Hell, now through the inauguration, even though Cheney still holds the keys & the codes. Obama, to his credit, is moving faster than any President-elect ever has in putting his Adminstration together. There will be no Clintonian inter-regnum of fumbled nominations, failed appointments and forgotten initiatives. But this means that, effectively, Obama has already started governing, and much of his government is being set in stone even as we speak. Now is not the time to stop speaking. Believe me, your erstwhile Clinton-faves are all rushing in to fill the vacuum you would have us leave. And let's not forget: The Clintons were an unmitigated disaster for the progressive movement in this country, a movement that has been stalled by forty years of Cons & DINOs. If we continue to "give them time" to take over the policy-making and implementing machinery of our government, we are in for four more years of "centrist," (i.e. Republican-Lite) Clintonian dithering and the end of "hope." It makes one wonder whose side you're on.
That's a pretty long list. Who does it leave, then? Got any specifics? And what criteria would you have for choosing them?
Mr. Clinton and Mr. Carter brought in a lot of non-Washington people and they got nothing but grief for it, and it hampered their ability to initiate a more liberal agenda. Mr. Clinton's failure on health care is a prime example of that. He was right, but didn't know how to work the system to get it done.
Mr. Obama isn't basing his cabinet decisions on ideological purity, he's basing them on their ability to do what he feels needs to be done. Whether you agree with these people's ideology isn't as relevant: I happen to agree with everything I say, but I wouldn't choose me for any position of responsibility because I know I wasn't up to it.
As for whose "side" I'm on, I'm on everyone's side. I want the world to be a better place for every human being on Earth. You don't get to that point by gauging everyone based on ideology.
And to address the side issue on this, I'm not saying people don't have the right to speak out, I'm saying that what some of you have been saying is speculative, whiny, and counterproductive. That's the great part about free speech, you state your opinion, I state mine.
If you want someone to go in the direction you want, you do it with deeds as well as words, by being pro-active as well as reactive. When FDR told the liberals of his day to "make him do it" that's what he meant. Stop whining and make Mr. Obama do it.
--SOMEGUYon SomeBodyElse'sSite
It seems to me that you're the one who is whining. Why don't you stop whining? All you do is regurgitate talking points you picked up in the tame corporate media, old, rank, stale sh*t going all the way back to the 70's.
If you can't think for yourself, don't bother repeating endlessly those ridiculous talking points. We've all heard them a thousand times. They always amount to this: "Do nothing. Trust the system. Left bad. "Center" good. Bullsh*t, plain & simple.
And if you think ideology means nothing, you aren't much at thinking. Carter and Clinton were incompetent DINO's without ideology. They compromised away any chance for change, just as you would do.
Even you admit Carter & Clinton accomplished nothing. Why give them another chance? As to other voices, try counting again: 300 million in America alone. 6 billion in the world at large.
Like I said, lead, follow or get out of the way. I'm already doing what I feel needs to be done, IRL. This is just a sideshow, as the name implies. Please do go on wasting your own time with your negativity, passivity and petty niggling. Yeah, you live on faith, not action. We get it. Now stop wasting our time. Go attack your conservative "friends" for all the harm they've done. The rest of us have real work to do, and whiners like you are just in the way.
.
.
Labels: Clintonians, Clintonista's, closet nazi's, collaborators, corporatists, DINO's, Republican Lite, Right-Wing, so-called centrist, so-called moderates
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posted by Cosa Nostradamus @ 12/18/2008 12:05:00 AM
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